(above) 600W 'Glass' FIR panels mounted on the lounge ceiling. A RAIS 2:1 double sided integrated stove is also in use as a supplementary / alternative heat source)
It’s been almost a year since I completed the renovation work on our 1920s era home, part of which was a rather bold move to ditch the traditional gas central heating, and instead switch to a completely different type of heating, Far Infrared (FIR). It’s certainly been an interesting (in both a good and bad way!) project and so I thought I would share our experiences on this blog to help any other ‘conFIRts’. Quite a few of the challenges experienced probably require their own blog but I thought I would kick things off with a err - ‘brief’ - summary of the pros and cons for those interested.
What is Far Infrared (FIR) heating?
Far Infrared comes in many forms these days – wall & ceiling panels, underfloor heating, and even domestic hot water (DHW) and ‘wet’ central heating systems. Whatever the form, they all use the same principle of generating FIR by passing electric current through a panel containing layers of carbon graphite polyimide, copper, nickel & nano silver to around 100c at which point long wave infra read / FIR is emitted. Unlike a traditional electric room heater, FIR is only absorbed by ‘matter’ and not air, so it does not rely on convection for heat transfer. The theory goes that as you are not heating air, but matter, far less energy is required to heat the same space than traditional electric heaters.
Is FIR really far better?
I can confirm that it’s true, FIR panels *do* emit a more natural heat sensation, the analogy used by many companies who sell FIR panels, is that of the sensation of feeling the sun on your face, on a cold winter morning, is a claim I can verify – though I’m afraid you can change back out of those Speedos – you won’t get a tan!
There are quite a few listed health benefits, mainly because without heat convection, there is less house dust in circulation, so people with asthmatic conditions, or simply just don’t like the drying out / ‘Bombay duck’ feeling of traditional central heating will find living in a FIR home far more comfortable. Our old central heating system somehow used to suck the life out of me like a Dementor from Harry Potter which would lead to constant ‘window open, window shut’ arguments with the wife every night.
We no longer have a gas boiler or any radiators, so because of that – there’s no requirement for boiler repairs, gas checks, pumps, valves, pipes, leaks and the pain of annual radiator ‘weeing’ as the wife used to call it. Being electric and with no moving parts, a FIR solution requires pretty much no servicing and panels can simply be swapped out by a home owner if they do break. So it’s certainly a far more resilient & ‘sold state’ type of solution. So there are certainly savings made on not having to service it.
Where To Put Them?
(above) 400w FIR panel on ceiling of upstairs hall. Always try to match panel 'shapes' to match the space you intend to heat - so in this case, a long thin panel was a better choice than a square one
The best place to fix FIR panels is on the ceiling, so this means a huge amount of wall space in your house can be reclaimed that was previously taken by ugly looking radiators. FIR panels are an interior decorators dream. Perhaps you don’t want to put anything there – and you can feel really good about having a pure white wall to look at. Some do!
Being electric, together with smart home technology, you can create some highly customisation, and efficient heating regimes. Heat rooms based on individual preferences, perhaps automatically turn down if movement is not detected for a number of days. It’s true that the £/KwH is more for electricity than gas, but with a wet central heating solution, you can’t simply ‘move’ a working radiator from one room to another. With FIR you can heat three rooms in rotation, using a fixed kWH budget – so a bit like getting a heater, heating a room for a bit, physically moving it to the next, and so on, until all rooms are up to temp. Once rooms hit the desired temp, they drop out of the loop, and thus 'shortening' it, so that the remaining rooms get more heat, until they in turn drop out, until all rooms come out of the loop and heating is off. So it's a loop rotation system that 'spread' heat around the house.
(Above) One small part of the 'JEFRSS' or (Jeff's Extraordinary FIR Rotational Sequencing System - a custom Loxone based program which 'moves' FIR heat around the house, depending on the time of day, internal room temperature and outside air temperature)
FIR heating is quite responsive, unlike underfloor heating which can take quite a while to adjust, you can ‘boost’ a FIR room back up to comfort temperature in a very short time. Likewise, if a room was ever to get too warm with FIR, the panels can simply be turned off.
The panels are very nearly 100% efficient. With no heat loss though boiler, pipes and other heating paraphernalia such as pumps, it takes 600watts to run a 600w FIR panel, and all of this energy is transferred to the room – so there is virtually no loss at all aside from minimal resistance in electric copper cabling.
Finally, they can be powered by the sun. It’s going to be a while until a household can generate its own gas, but you can generate your own electricity. On a sunny winters day, if you have a large sized PV system on the roof (we have a 4KW system), you’ll likely not have to pay anything for your heating at all.
FIR – The Considerations
Any technology which is powered by electricity is going to be more expensive to run on paper, than gas, simply because the cost / KwH of electricity is far higher than using gas. So the key factors to a successful FIR deployment are as follows:
Insulation
As with any heating solution, the better insulated your house, then the better it will retain its heat, and therefore the less time it will need to be on. If your house has poor insulation then the W/sq meter required to heat your home will be higher, and therefore so will your electricity bill. Just with anything electric, it will be considerably higher! So work our your w/square meter first, that will help you estimate your worst case scenario electricity bills.
Panel type and placement
This is rather crucial. Panels should be placed as central to a room as possible, and remember that FIR cannot pass around corners, so any strange shaped rooms would be better suited to multiple smaller panels, rather than a large central one.
Thermostats / temperature sensors
They more you have the more you can manage and optimise. Because FIR heats matter and not air (which is what thermostats measure) you would typical set a thermostat a few degrees lower for FIR than for traditional central heating. So 19.5c rather than 21.5c.
Smart Home Management Plans
This is certainly a topic in its own right, but basically, if you are thinking about FIR you really should also consider deploying it with full smart home integration, monitoring and reporting in order to control running costs. For our project we used the powerfully and highly functional Loxone Smart Home solution.
Secondary / Alternative heat source
To take the ‘heat’ out of deep winter bills, I would recommend building an additional high power heat source that uses and alternative energy source from electricity, a wood burning stove with passive heat circulation to other rooms in the house is a great choice – and something we installed. It means in a power cut, we don’t freeze!
Wiring & fixing points
I would caution anyone trying to retrofit FIR room by room, and not part of a full refurb. If you have one room which is not on your central heating, then fine, but doing the whole house – that’s a big job. If you are refurbing anyway as we were – then this is the time to think about it. Make sure you isolate your panels to their own ‘rings’ and carefully calculate the max potential load on each ring.
Temperature Sensor Placement
This needs to be carefully thought out. If your sensors are too close to your panels, the entire room will not get up to heat, but conversely, placing them too far from the panels, you may find your panels are on more than they need to be. Thankfully Loxone make a wireless light switch with built in temperature and humidity sensor, so this gives you the ability to move it around to get the best placement.
Voltage
A biggie! If you are buying FIR panels, you need to check the voltage input on the transformers. It’s possible (like ours) that the units are CE marked and run at 230v. This is totally legal, however, for ceiling panels in particular – can cause major problems, because the typical UK voltage is 240v – your FIR panels will run over wattage. So they will give out more heat – which you might think is good – but not so. To prevent them overheating, FIR panels have a built in overheat cut off, and up on the ceiling where it’s warmest, a panel that is supposed to run at 230v and 600w, on 240v will likely run at around 640w. Doesn’t sound like a lot, but this will cause the panels to overheat, and switch off.
So your FIR panels (as ours were) were simply never getting a long enough burn and were constantly clicking off and on. The solution rather than replace all the panels, and likely have to re-do all the mounting points (lot of work) – was to purchase in a VO or ‘Voltage Optimiser’ which enabled me to down step the voltage in the house from 240v to 226.5v – so very nearly 230v. This was only possible because we have all the panels on their own dedicated power rings, so we simply moved the FIR rings over to the VO and the problem was solved. It’s not really what at VO is supposed to do, but it really saved our bacon.
EPC Rating
Another biggie. If you are doing a retro fit, then prepare for your EPC rating to drop like a stone. You will be subjected to a type of EPC check called an ‘rdSAP’ (residential SAP) type of assessment. This type of EPC check has many assumptions, and also, there is no ‘category’ for your FIR panels, so the rdSAP assessor will simply put them in as ‘Electric Panel Heaters’ which will result in an awful rating.
To get around this, you need to embark on something called ‘Full SAP’ – something usually done for new builds only. However - thanks to a brainwave by Mark Hunt at MH Energy Consultants - if you change your primary heat source (as we did) plus you have full architect's drawings, so floor plans, elevations and importantly cross sections – a much more accurate figure can be calculated by a Full SAP assessor. The difference is huge. After rdSAP – for our renovated home, they came back with a rating of E, and very nearly nearly F (awful). Full SAP, the house was upgraded all the way to C. After the rating was awarded, ominously the powers that be (presumably surprised that an electric powered house could obtain a C rating) demanded a full EPC audit. That came back... with 100% accuracy – so C it was – and I have a strong suspicion that we own the only 100% FIR heated 1920s era property with a C rating in the UK - and who knows, perhaps Europe too?! With feed in tariffs (FITs) kicking in from D and better, you can see getting the Full SAP was important. Even without FITs – your EPC figure will no doubt be printed on the estate agents details about your home if you ever decided to sell, so a bad rating might make the property less attractive. New regulations coming in to force in 2018 could also prove extremely troublesome (you will not be able to let the property for rent!) if your EPC ratings are below E.
Is FIR cheaper than gas central heating?
For us, I’m pretty sure, no. At the moment, gas is seriously cheap compared to electrics, and boilers are getting more and more efficient all the time. We were one of the last households to scrape in with a FIT before the end of the year (last few days of 2015) We will be generating and earning much better yields from our 4Kw array through the summer, and we’ve estimated this will offset over the additional amount spent during the winter. There is still quite a bit of optimising to do in the house, plus some internal & external insulation that can be added to older external walls, plus we will have a much larger log store to enable us to buy wood in bigger bulk during the summer when it’s cheaper.
So next year I’m hoping we will be running a much tighter (and warmer) ship. Realistically though I think we will be paying pretty much the same.
Energy Usage & PV With FIR
Take a look at some of the following charts.
Firstly, lets look at the total FIR use for the house, which is approx 100sq meters downstairs, and the same upstairs - so we need to heat approx 200sq meters:
So - this time of year (Early April), outside temperatures are ranging from 5c at night to a high of 14 day time. The house needs from 15kWh to 33kWh to heat it.
Next lets take a look at the power generated by the PV system over the same period - which is 4KW:
You can see that clearly, the 10th and the 12th of April were quite sunny days. This time of year, due to the angle of the sun, you're not going to get the full power out of your PV array, but 17.5kWh is not bad for April.
The next chart shows the amount of energy used by the FIR system, whilst the PV was working. It's not simply a case of subtracting PV from FIR, because these are per day figures, and it's possible that some PV power was generated when FIR panels were off. But in any case, it gives you a nice indication of how much FIR power was being used after the PV had been taken off:
So aside the 7th, we are around the 20kWh per day mark at this time of year. This still make some people wince, however remember that in addition to the PV energy we are using, we are at the same time getting a good generation tariff too - and this more or less than covers the cost of what's left to pay. Finally in the main summer months when FIR is not needed at all, we will also be exporting power into the grid so we'll get a little extra for that too.
So…. Is FIR for you?
As mentioned above like with most things in life there are benefits and considerations.
The main takeaway point is that a FIR solution is not something that should be done on a whim and should be properly planned, and done as part of a major house refurb as there is quite a bit of wiring to do. There are also quite a few ‘gotchas’ such as panel transformer voltage issues and placement so it’s definitely a project which has the potential to go horribly wrong.
It should also be done in combination with Solar generation and perhaps wind too. Yes it’s likely that in the coldest parts of the year, there is not going to be much sun to power your FIR, but in the Autumn & Spring you will find that plenty of days (like this week!) are sunny but chilly, so your heating for free during the day, good home insulation will keep much of that day time warmth in so you’ll just be needing room by room top ups throughout the night. Today is a very sunny but chilly day, and I can see from the house computer that we’re not using anything from the grid, the house is nicely warm, and there is not a leaky valve or noisy pump in use. Mission accomplished!
Because of this I can strongly recommend you get some good suppliers to work with you on your FIR project...
(I am not affiliated in any way with any of these suppliers - they are just good suppliers that I would like to recommend!)
Multi Heat Energy Systems
http://www.multiheat-energysystems.co.uk
Kevin and Heather at MultiHeat were one of many suppliers that I looked into when getting quotes for FIR panels. They were by far the most responsive, in not just getting quotes back, but throughout the entire project. As mentioned on this blog we did have some problems with over voltage, but MultiHeat worked with us and our other suppliers to find a solution - which including updating a number of panels to a newer model (at no charge to us) as we found they simply worked better on ceilings. They also took great care in the initial part of the project to plan out panel positions with me, working out sizing etc to ensure we got the right solution in place. If you are uncertain in any way about FIR - you don't need to be uncertain about the supplier to choose as far as I am concerned.
Herschel Infrared
https://www.herschel-infrared.com
I did not come across Herschel until well after we had purchased our FIR solution, however I have to give both Jane and Jonathan @ Herschel a mention for their entirely unselfish and major contribution in helping us get to the bottom of our voltage / overheating problem. There was nothing in it for them, they were just helping a FIR user with a problem they had seen before.
MH Energy Consultants Ltd
Mark Hunt (MRICS) was our saviour on the EPC front - with a looming FIT registration deadline, Mark first discovered the EPC boosting 'full SAP' option, and then, facing a considerable task of turning around all the calculations in a very short space of time, got us over the wire with just days to spare. As mentioned in the blog, Marks reward for helping us was to face a full EPC audit of his calculations (sorry Mark!) - the audit was 100% OK so again, a big thank you to Mark for his help on our project.
Loxone Home Automation
Much of the technology in the house depends on Loxones brilliant home automation solution. We have not only the FIR panels hooked up, but also lighting, PV system, weather stations, home entertainment system and more. The stand out advantage of Loxone is the programming system, which may look complicated, but with a little logic, is a breeze to use, it's a bit corny to say this, but the limitation of the system is your own creativeness, there is generally always a means to do pretty much anything with this system.
EcoLiving
EcoLiving, in particular Frank McElroy supplied us not only with the integrated roof 4kW PV solution, but also the EcoCent ASHP Hot Water solution - a rather clever system (it probably deserves it's own blog item) which takes warm air from the bathroom and uses this in an internal heat pump to generate hot water. The EcoCent then exhausts cold air and we managed to route this into the master bedroom during hot weather - so A/C as a waste product! It was EcoLiving which came up with the particular Voltage Optimiser solution, which solved our voltage problems.
Final Word
Quite often in life, the cheapest isn’t always the best. Lifestyle is important. Going FIR for us was less about creating the cheapest possible heating solution, (for that we might have decided to go underfloor heating which I have a passionate hatred of) but more about creating the best quality of heat. Yes that's right - heat has quality! I just really like the type of heat these FIR panels give out, and the simplicity and room segment control that FIR panels give you.
As the developed world tries to wean itself off fossil fuels, I do feel a little satisfaction that my home is not (directly anyway) heated by them. As mentioned above, on some days, it entirely heats itself for nothing.
The future of heating your home is electric – in my opinion, that’s a cold certainty.
The big question is how little can you get away with using, and are you able to generate and perhaps store, any of it yourself.
Roslin - 2 January 2017 13:39
Thank you so much for this! I've been wrestling with the idea and it all sounded too good to be true. You've cleared up everything and now I must plan!
Jeff - 3 January 2017 16:23
Hi Roslin, thanks for getting in touch and yes - definitely something you need to plan. I think a good idea would be to talk to either Multi-Heat or Herschel and get them to advise you on what panel plan is needed to heat each room. Perhaps ask them to estimate you the total number of KWhs of power your setup will use - just to give you a rough idea of what your bill will look like. Next you find a surveyor (perhaps someone like Mark Hunt at MH Energy) who could try to give you a better idea of heat loss from each room. So after doing this, you will know how much juice is going to be needed to heat the space, and how quickly the room will lose it (and therefore require it to be heated again). I will post up an update on our system here, I wanted also to include some interesting experiences with upgrading old double glazing to LowE glass, internal Sheep Wool and MGO board insulation, plus problems with humidity and ventilation, problems which are exacerbated by a desire to seal / insulate up the house as much as possible!!
Arif (Eric) Saeed - 12 January 2017 17:06
You have reaffirmed my own insight into the future of energy use particularly in cold countries like ours, Canada. FIR panels are stone age solution to modern day heating. Great contribution!
Jeff - 12 January 2017 18:49
Thanks for the compliment Eric! It was quite a bit of work writing this FIR blog item, but it's all worth it when you get good feedback from those that are interested!
Ian - 6 February 2017 23:34
A really well written and stimulating piece. Thank you! It seems you have worked through some of the issues we now face. We have just moved into a quite draughty cob/brick extension country cottage and live away from mains gas. Our LPG boiler has recently been condemned so we are using this as an opportunity to totally rethink our energy. We are about to get solar panels which should be around 4kW and I really like the idea of FIR instead of LPG but am also looking into a log/multi-fuel burner to run the existing central heating. Just out of interest what burner did you go for, how many radiators and what power output? Another question, if I may- are you becoming more or less impressed with the FIR over time and how do you think it would suit an old, low-ceilinged cob cottage? Once again, thank you for writing your informative article.
Jeff - 7 February 2017 12:24
Thanks Ian - glad you found my post useful! It was important for us to have a 2nd heat source in case we were without power in the winter, plus take the edge of the bills when it gets cold. The RAIS 2:1 double aspect stove in our lounge does a good job. It has 2 X manifolds in the top that a can pipe HOT (not warm!) air around the house. We elected a short run to a room upstairs just because this was a bit of a late addition, and this was pretty much the only place it could go. In future work, we might extend the heat piping around the upstairs. There is almost no control over this heat apart from a manual closable vent, which needs to be heat rated for high temps as it gets extremely hot (supplier previously fitted a plastic vent, which melted!) The EcoCent is a great HotWater system, and uses warm air from an upstairs bathroom in it's heat pump to generate hot water for the house. Again this is a very maintenance light system. Am I becoming more of less impressed over time? Good question. I think on the whole - more. Yesterday we needed to move a FIR panel into a more central ceiling location in a room because we decided it had been fitted too close to a wall for maximum coverage, so this was a 1 hour job for a handyman with a screw driver. Imagine moving a rad! We have not had any failures, and no gas boiler call outs / safety checks. This year we are completing the internal insulation for the 1920s part of the house - using a breathable wall technique (sheep wool & MGO board), and every room that we do, improves the heating situation dramatically so I think once they are all done, when all the bills are factored in, plus solar, and with a good KWh rate from our energy provider, we might *just* get the bills down to somewhere near what they used to be. And that's the point really. FIR is always going to be more expensive. There are no government grants, and even solar, you are going to get far less than the 12p / KWh rate we got - I think it's something like 4p / kWh now isn't it? Winter you will not generate much, and summer you probably won't need heating, so it's really only spring and autumn seasons where it's both cold, plus sun high enough in the sky to get a decent amount of KWs generated. It's a nice sunny day today, and our 4 KW system is only generating 2KW. That's to be expected. Also, obviously during the night, it's not going to contribute anything!! FIR is actually good for drafty environments (our FIR supplier sells a lot to drafty warehouses) because heat isn't blown away - it's essentially 'shone' like a light, to you will feel warmth around it. However with drafts, when your FIR is off, your room air temp will drop like a stone, and as such, you may find your FIR is all pretty much all the time, when really they should only be on for at most a third. So like I said to a previous poster, there is a need to get a bit technical, work out your properties cost to heat taking into account the building materials, windows, air tightness & insulation, and from here, talk to the FIR supplier and try to estimate bills in advance so there are no surprises. Biomass systems seem very popular at the moment, pellet fed in particular, and there are still grants I think for these. Sorry not a very 'yes/no' answer but so much depends on your property and it's ability to keep in - I'm just thinking that with a cob/brick extension, you might find FIR a little expensive. It would feel lovely and it would be very cheap to maintain, however I think could be expensive to actually run. Jeff
Manuel Soto - 10 February 2017 16:32
Have you run into any info re any bad effects of such abundance of electromagnetic infrared absorption by the human bodies will have on its cell function? I know it infrared heat is used in physical therapy as a treatment to promote healing of an injured site true, but how does the long term general exposure affect it? I wonder is it healthy vs. unhealthy? as that type of heat is a bombardment of ions.
Jeff - 10 February 2017 17:06
Thanks for getting in touch Manuel - and I'm sure there are quite a few people out there that would like to know if these panels are 'healthy' or not. There is certainly a LOT of information out there on the internet, some reputable, some perhaps brochure-ware on FIR panel selling web sites. I don't really know much about ions / cell function - but I do know that these types of heaters have been around for a very long time, initially used in Saunas. Most of the stated health benefits of FIR are respiratory, in that there is minimal convection, less dust, and no emissions / smell. Because of this, if you suffer from allergies, or (like me) are just very sensitive to 'dry heat' then FIR is worth considering. Every day you pick up the paper, there is something new (usually something you like) that is bad for you. Very recently, Roast Potatoes, toast. Sometimes they will say something is bad - Red Wine & chocolate, and a year later they will say, actually it's good. So who's to know! Certainly I can confirm that we don't appear to have suffered any short term affects (two years), as for long term - hopefully I will still be around in 20 years time to give you an update on that!!! Seriously though - the only negative health impact I have suffered is the pain of opening the electricity bill - but then as I have said, there are many bills we are not paying (plumbers, gas etc), so at least we are the masters of our own destiny!!!
Hayley - 13 February 2017 16:22
Hi Jeff, Thanks for your insight, we are about to embark on replacing our Oil system with FIR which has been a scary decision! We have a converted coach house that is ALWAYS cold and the oil heating is constantly on. We are undertaking a restoration so decided it was the best time to give them a go. Do you have any advise about finding an approved fitter and any other advice that may help us along the way please?
Jeff - 13 February 2017 18:08
Hi Hayley. Thanks for getting in touch! The nice thing about FIR is that they can be installed by any electrician - the one I used, had never seen a FIR panels before. It's just an electrical appliance - a good one will know how to rate the ring main based on the panels load. Both the FIR suppliers mentioned on this blog are recommended by me, and both will be able to help you estimate how many panels, the type of panels, their position, and crucially, how much energy will be required to heat the space, and keep it heated, with other factors such as outside air temperature, and your building fabric taken into account. I would recommend you ask them to provide a rough estimate in KW/h and therefore running cost. To get really good calcs you may need to use someone like Mark Hunt however for this you would need very detailed specs for the building, plans and even cross sectional drawings to get a really good estimate. It's so important to work this stuff out - it's possible your space if it's large - may need 4 X 800W panels - so would draw 3.2KW - if the building can't absorb and retain it then these panels could be on pretty much all the time when it's very cold. Even at a good rate 11p / KWh - (if my maths is right, and it usually isn't so you'd better check this!) that could cost 35p / hour or over 24 hous, £8.40 a day for just one large room! Hence important to get the details right, and you can see worth spending a little initially to avoid big bills.
Neil - 28 February 2017 21:43
Hi Jeff. Thank you so much for taking the time to write this very useful and informative article. I have spent weeks searching for a decent, honest review on far infrared heating only to find haters (even though they have no experience of them) berating the concept, and lovers promising gas central heating smashing savings! I have been considering changing my heating system from gas to infrared for sometime now. I live in a 1980's 3 bed semi that is fairly well insulated. I know that it will be more than gas to heat the house but I, like you, find convection heating a bit humid and claustrophobic. I am also fed up with the heating failing during the winter every few years and then having to listen to the plumber sucking in air as he looks at the boiler before saying 'this isn't going to be cheap'. Your article has given me a lot to think about. I get the impression from your article that infrared maybe best suited to being run along side another form of heating - is this the case, or do you rarely use your wood burner to heat the house?
Jeff - 28 February 2017 22:19
Hi Neil - glad you found the article useful. I am working on an update to the blog which will go over my experience over the last year, the electricity bills (!), and the tweaks that have been made in order to get the system to run better - today actually the last room in our house has been given the 'sheep wool' treatment - so that's a milestone for us. As I mentioned on a number of the comments, every house is different. My house, it seems we are completely fine with the outside air temp above 2c. It appears that at this temperature, the FIR heating regime I have designed can keep all rooms in the house warm with minimal KWs being used. When the mercury dips below 2c - it seems a tipping point is reached, and the older 1920s side of house (non cavity wall, but with sheep wool internal insulation now) just can't replace the heat lost, so the rooms lose heat faster than the heating plan can cope. This means a 19c room rather than a 20c room. Not a huge deal, but it's funny when walking from the warmer side of the house to the older colder part, 1c lower seems like 10c lower! There is still some experimentation to do with heating plans. Perhaps I will upgrade a panel from 500W to 700W. Easy to do with FIR. One of the vendors that I spoke to originally told me that FIR panels are generally on 1/3 of the time, and so remembering this, I have recently re-configured the sequencing 'loops' my panels operate in so each loop has only three rooms. This does seem to work better though I now have more loops so more panels running concurrently. Overall power use is lower however. Tonight, the log burner in the lounge is lit....would we freeze without it? No. Is it nice having it on, and with the side effect that it takes 'bonus heat' upstairs via it's manifold - yes. So I think a 2ndary heat source, is essential really. If it's one that you have complete control over, works without any power at all, and don't need to 'fix' even better. I'm not really an eco-maniac, but wood is carbon neutral, so you do feel a little more 'responsible'. But really, I just like a wood fire! As we have sealed out the house with wool insulation and MGO board (amazing stuff, which if more people knew about it would put all plasterers out of business!) humidity has become more of a problem. Particularly in a downstairs bedroom in the Annex. So we bought a Meaco 12L dehumidifier for this room - the humidity issues in this room have gone, but interestingly, because this room has recently been 'wool'ed' the FIR panels in the room have not been on since the Meaco has been running last Sunday. Being a compressor unit, the air coming out of it is a few degrees higher than the room temp, this appears to be enough to hold room temp, even last night when it was minus 2 outside. So this tells me that in looking for a 2ndary heat sources, your options are not only wood, but also low energy de-humidifiers too. The Meaco is a bit of a special case, as it uses very little power being energy efficient - though if you want to use the HEPA filter option (useful) it will use about 10% more power than the specifications claim. I read that back, and that sounds a bit nerdy! Oh well! Jeff
Peter O'Donnell - 3 March 2017 14:43
Hi Neil, Great blog. I have been specifying infrared in social housing here in the Western Isles for the last few years. The results have been fantastic but due to the low EPC score I am under serious pressure to find a solution otherwise we stop installing them. I am due to meet the Scottish Government at the end of the month to convince them to help us rid the islands of fuel poverty by allowing infrared to be installed and for them to put pressure on RdSAP to recognise infrared. I was delighted to to see the comments on full SAP and I will now try and put a houses through full SAP to see if this breaks the magical 65 barrier. Our tenants in 1 bed properties are spending less than £18 a week for all their electric costs if they have infrared. Fuel poverty all but erased for these tenants, Cheers
Jeff - 3 March 2017 16:41
Thanks for the compliment Peter, and hope you can get full SAPs done and you can get your EPCs upgraded - let me know how it goes. You need plans and cross sections - perhaps give Mark Hunt at MH Energy a call who helped me? If you can argue that the primary heat source has changed, and you have plans, cross sections, which clearly show the types of insulation used, plus do all the calcs for thermal mass - basically include as much detail as possible - it could work. RdSAP is such a blunt instrument - remember my house was an E. Marks figures (which were also audited) for my property upgraded me all the way to a C which for a 100% FIR, 200 sq meter property (not a one bed flat) is pretty good!
Peter - 7 March 2017 23:37
Sorry for getting your name wrong Jeff. I have a couple of architects willing to hel with full SAP. Will keep you posted. My own house is roughly 200sq m with 16 solar panels. I am constantly swaying between air source and infrared so plenty food for thought there also
Gary Paterson - 13 March 2017 11:16
Jeff, I have been helping Peter O'Donnell adddress fuel poverty on the islands and introduced the idea to him approx 18months ago. I am an architect, passive house designer and green deal assessor and used to do full SAP for new houses. I would like to get into the reasons why full SAP elevated the EPC rating. Have left a couple of messages at MH Energy to discuss and would be interested to know if you have any idea? Note I like you am transitioning from mains gas to mix of wood burner and FIR + PV although too early to start comparing.
Jeff - 13 March 2017 11:46
Hi Gary, I'm happy to have a chat at any time, just call me on the number on the 'contact us' section. The first type of EPC assessment we looked at was Rd - simply because this is what we were told we HAD to do. The RdSAP assessor explained that there were a number of assumptions he was making, such as not allowing for any insulation in the floors and walls due to the age of the house because he couldn't see it. The work had been done, and we had all the evidence, R numbers, and plans - but I seem to remember him telling me something along the lines of that there was just nowhere in his software to plug in this level of detail. We had retrofitted most of the old solid outside walls with 100mm of internal insulation and none of this work was able to be taken into account in RdSAP either - again even though the work had clearly been done. Our EcoCent HSHP Hot Water system - I'm not sure this was able to include either. We also had an air pressure test done, which came back with a a good reading. Not sure if it's still the case now, but in our case, RdSAP could not take air pressure tests into account either. So Mark was able to include all of this data in his calculations using full SAP and that's why we went from E to C.
Jeff - 13 March 2017 11:55
p.s. Gary - we have done all of our work, so PV, FIR, insulation, ASHP hot water, and not one single penny of 'Green Deal' money which is sad when you think back to the Paris Climate Change Summit they basically stated people have to stop using gas for their CH & HW!!! I probably have one of the greenest houses in Surrey, but no help on the green deal for us! I think there is a strong argument for some sort of subsidies on electrical KWh for homes using FIR heating..... naturally only for qualifying houses - hopefully like mine!!!!
Christopher Kendrick - 4 April 2017 16:57
Thank you for a very interesting, informative and honest blog Jeff. I work in the area of passive architecture and am sure that Far IR is a viable solution for new build housing with the latest specs (U-values etc), especially with the new generation of controls now available. I am interested that you confirm some of my reservations about retrofit to older houses though - it is certainly not the cheaper alternative many of the IR websites seem to have one believe unless a lot of work is also carried out to the fabric of the building to upgrade the thermal performance. I have one query. Do you feel you could capitalize on the responsiveness of the system more? I was wondering if rooms could be kept more on a setback mode until occupied. Would this be a feasible strategy to help reduce electricity use?
Jeff - 6 April 2017 20:14
Hi Christopher, thanks for the nice comments! Responsiveness is a challenge really because it is going to vary room by room (room size and critically - the thermal characteristics), the size of panels in that room, where in the room they are situated and also importantly, where in the room your thermostat is. In an older property like mine, old rooms lose temp quickly, so if you turn the stat down when the room is not occupied, you will loose heat fast. Your panels then have to do a full, long burn, to get the room back up to temp. I discovered that it was actually cheaper to keep the older rooms at the same temperature 24/7 - yes perhaps this doesn't make sense, but turning the heating down in the old part at night / when rooms are not in use - was a little like stopping an oil tanker - when the warmth is gone, getting it back up to temp requires lots of energy - more than keeping the room at the same temp all of the time - that's a 'cold' fact - I have the power charts of the offending rooms! It's a completely different matter in the new part of the house,in that part the rooms all have modern cavity wall insulation. Rooms retain their heat for ages. You could switch the panels off all night, you might drop 1C and put a PIR sensor on so they turn on in the morning - they would 'flash heat' the room and the panels would be off again in no time. So it's all about the the thermal performance of the room. As mentioned we have tried internal insulation which has had quite a good impact - but I think the best solution would be external insulation as you would be able to use the walls of the house internally to 'store' heat - whereas now, our internal insulation is preventing this (but also preventing heat moving to the cooler walls too). So again I would say - new houses - new builds - I think FIR should be seriously considered especially when combined with solar. New houses, retrofitting - it's probably not worth the hassle unless you are going to do it anyway. For old houses - unless you are prepared to do some significant insulation (and lets not forget ventilation) then I think my advise would be to avoid - unless you have other reasons - such as you simply think FIR is a more pleasant type of heat, don't like gas / wet central heating - and of course - don't mind paying the premium for the privilege!!!
The Renewable Energy Hub - 13 April 2017 11:27
i read your blog.you provide such a great information.you really help us how we can use our natural resouces.today the popularity of solar energy are increasing day to day.in this way we can save our money as well as our enviroment.we also provide the same services.if you are intrested visit our website.
Jeff - 13 April 2017 11:33
Hi Renewable Energy Hub! Thanks for the kind words! This is by far the most visited and commented page on our website so I'm really pleased that so many people are interested, and that I can be of help to any people out there that would like to hear practical, sensible, balanced opinions (I hope!) - then that's makes the blog worth writing!
Geoff from Courtenay B.C. - 5 May 2017 22:31
Am I ever glad I finally found someone who has some real life experience with FIR. I am currently renovating a 4000 sqft mid-80's house top to bottom. The house had hydronic heating but unfortunately the system has failed and we need a new solution. There is no natural gas in our neighbourhood so that leaves electricity or propane as the only viable heating sources. Propane is very expensive, would require onsite storage and therefor would require frequent refilling. And of course we would need a central furnace and ducting installed etc. So we are looking at electricity. Electricity worries me too because of its expense but our contractor had mentioned FIR, I have to admit I had never heard of it (we had been leaning towards a heat pump with electric furnace back-up. The install costs on that are very high). The house is well insulated and the windows and doors have all been replaced, but in order to put FIR in our house we need something like 25 panels (!) which would draw 127amps if they were all on! I'm told they would only need to run 5-6 hours a day (our climate is very temperate averaging 8C winters and 20C summers). I like the technology, I just don't want to end up with an electricity bill in the $1000's a month! Can you allay my fears?
Jeff - 5 May 2017 23:06
Hi Geoff! Thanks for getting in touch. The first thing i would say is that 4,000 sq ft is just under twice our 200 sq meters so in that respect yes if all your panels are on it's going to be a very expensive solution. However with an average 8C temperate winter climate and a well insulated property I think you might be OK. For us, in our hybrid 1920s / 2015 renovation - the old half of the house suffers badly with it's solid walls - when the external temperature dips below 3c. Below 3c external we are using a load more juice - simply because the heat loss is so much worse at lower temps. Above 3c - we are using dramatically less. Today - the external temperature peaked at 14c and is currently 8c (it's 23:00 here now). Total FIR draw today (without PV) - for our entire 200 sq property - is just 7.4KW so far today (and today is very nearly over) and I can also see there are no panels on at all right now. So very little indeed. 5KW taking into account when the PV was running (most of the FIR heat was on during night time). I still have to say though - this is our house & every house is going to perform different. Some (I think most) will be better, but some worse. To know for sure how your place will perform, I think you need to find someone that can crunch the numbers - any FIR vendor worth their salt will help you with this and be able to project usage and bills in order to give you peace of mind. I personally think that FIR is a great solution for 5-10c average winter temps. For the UK, where we can get some pretty cold nights (-8 this year) you need a 2ndary heat source like a wood burning stove to take the 'heat' out of those bills. Jeff
Geoff - 12 May 2017 17:09
Great article at last some feed back from a pioneer who took the giant step and ventured out into the solar system of far infrared heating and shared his brave adventure with us. I live in the highlands of Scotland, remote from mains Gas and reliable internet and just about everything really. The house is relatively new (1991) well insulated, about 150 square metres. I have been looking at alternatives to the original storage heaters in the property, which I turned off after one month due to costs (£375) and lack of useful heat. We had a survey and advice conducted from Home Energy Scotland and they have continued to support and advise as we have considered a number of options which include, ground source heat pump, air source heat pump, oil, biomass, solid fuel and Far infrared. As I have not been able to get much in the way of objective information about infrared until your article I had all but dismissed it but your article has reawakened my interest. I have recently spoken to a local supplier at a Home Fair and witnessed a 1200 watt mirror in action, I quite liked the idea of the system but until now could not obtain sufficient information about living with the system and the costs of running it. I have a solid fuel stove downstairs and a 'Jetmaster' open fire upstairs, we are an unconventional design, living room upstairs with large windows to optimise daylight and view. It would be great if the system was suitable for our house it would amongst other things avoid the need to install a wet delivery system and the associated disruption. We have had a survey for solar panels (4 Kwh) which we will install when we make final decision on new system. We of course are not renowned in the Highlands for great weather and the winter days are short but this is made for in summer with long days so on average we hope to make good use of the solar panels. I have just arranged for the local supplier to conduct a survey next week and I feel better armed to discuss things with him as a result of your excellent article. I am still confused by a few issues, including the point in your article about the power overload resulting in ceiling heaters cutting out and how I can cope with this in the planning stages. Thanks for the information you have shared Geoff
Jeff - 12 May 2017 17:26
Hi Geoff - thanks for your kind comments. With regards to ceiling panels overheating - this is something to be careful about. Firstly - there are some panels which are designed to go on ceilings and some that are not. Up at ceiling level, it's warmer - so your panel is simply going to run hotter. I had an older type of 600w panel here with an Aluminium type frame - this would cut out at ceiling level after just 5 mins. If I took it off the ceiling and rested it on the worktop - it was fine. The vendor replaced the panel with a newer 'more efficient' model which had a white frame, and this worked fine on the ceiling. The other point I was making about overheating is - be sure to ask the panel vendor if the transformers on the panel are specified to run at 240v. If they are specified to run at 230v then at 230v then a 600w panel will deliver 600w. If you plug this panel into a 240v supply, this 600w panel is actually going to run at something like 640w - and because of this will run hotter. Perhaps this is fine when running panels / mirrors on the wall - but up on the ceiling that extra wattage (I found) caused the panels to switch off every 5 minutes - so you are perpetually turning on / off / on panels all day long which is not great because FIR is only generated at a certain temp - so won't function optimally at cool down or warm up. You want them to run at the specified running temp for a decent duration to heat the room before they switch off. As I mentioned in the article, I had already bought all my panels, and they were all 230v so the only way to fix this was to get a Voltage Optimiser in and drop the rings the panels were on down to 230v - thus making the panels run at their specified wattage and fixing the overheat problem. But you won't need to do that if you specify panels that are designed to run on ceilings, and that are fitted with 240v transformers! Jeff
Geoff - 12 May 2017 22:54
Hi Jeff, thanks for taking the time to answer my comment, I think I have got my head around it now, so it shouldn't be an issue as long as the supplier uses the correct panels for the ceilings. I am now seriously considering the FIR system, cannot wait for the supplier survey on Monday. I have read the other answers you gave above and presently researching the Ecocent water heater system, another revelation to me. Feeling confident for the first time that I can find a good alternative to the present system, thanks again, Geoff
Rick Kirk - 3 July 2017 01:29
This is a very interesting article and I thank you for writing it. Unfortunately FIR's reputation is being destroyed by unscrupulous companies making wildly optimistic claims of 50-70% savings on your gas heating bills by ripping your system out and installing an FIR system. They also target the elderly and basically mis-sell these panels. As you have eloquently said you just about break even but you have done a huge amount of time to ensure yours was a successful project. My elderly relative was a victim of these sales techniques and her bills are at least 60% more than prior cost after spending a lot of money. I was interested in your comment about rentals as I'm hearing that Housing Associations have installed these for their tenants! This is clearly the other side of the coin. Well done in working through all the issues and again taking time to explain your success.
Matthew Hunt - 1 August 2017 14:35
Really good read, i am pleased to see you pointing out the Voltage issues as well although i feel they will all be rated at 230v so they can be sold into Europe. You can actually get a wireless control system that can switch the panels on or off thermostatically or through time/date settings, this i think would further enhance your fine achievements to date. Keep up the good work.
Jeff Jones - 1 August 2017 15:03
Thanks for your comments Matthew - always good to know that people are finding this blog item useful / interesting! I think I might have mentioned in the post that Herschel Infrared do a 240v version so one of their 600W panels will output at exactly 600W in the UK and run at the specified temperature, which is what you want. So I would recommend buying the correct voltage to avoid the possibility of any overheat situation. I haven't checked in with MultiHeat for a long time but it's possible they are now doing UK 240v panels also (one of the benefits of FIR I think is that as they don't go wrong, we have never had to 'get to know our supplier' that well after the installation - though they are lovely people!) The Loxone smart home system we have is quite a bit more sophisticated than a wireless control system (types of which are sold with FIR panels) as I far more control over the sequencing plus integrations with PV. But the cold facts are that a 600W FIR panel with a 230v transformer will actually output around 630W (or more if, like us, your voltage is over 240 - right now, we are at 245v I notice) and if ceiling mounted, this panel would overheat after being on for just 5 minutes - the panel would then automatically switch off, cool down, two minutes later - turn on again, 5 minutes after this... off. You get my drift. Because FIR is only really generated when the panel is 'up to temp' - panels switching on / off every 5 minutes is no good to anyone and no matter of sensors / thermostats will help you. Sure it will generate some heat, and you will think that because it's still 'on' most of the time, it's working - but actually as far as FIR goes - it's not. All you hear is a subtle 'click' as the relay in the panel switches off. If you have FIR and you are hearing your panels click every couple of minutes - chances are - you've got voltage problems!
Dee - 1 September 2017 14:29
Do any of you have any experience or advice on using infrared heating underfloor film? As the film can be distributed over a much larger space than panels but with lower power, it appears to be a much more cost effective option than panels. I'm struggling to find any real reviews so any help would be much appreciated.
Ed - 1 September 2017 16:41
Hi Jeff, What is the total kW of your system for your 200Sq metre house? Thanks, Ed
Jeff - 1 September 2017 17:13
Hi Dee, no I'm afraid I have no experience with film. I did look at this temporarily, however I was a little suspicious that it was basically electric underfloor heating. From my blog above I state that FIR is generated "by passing electric current through a panel containing layers of carbon graphite polyimide, copper, nickel & nano silver to around 100c at which point long wave infra read / FIR is emitted" - so I guess I was wondering how on earth this could be done using an under floor film. Would you get a 100c floor!? Have they worked out a way of emitting FIR at far lower temps? If so do they have the science to back this up? The other problem with underfloor FIR is similar to wet of plain electric - you need to carefully plan each room layout - and once your room plan is done you can't change it without taking the floor up. Finally if there is a problem with it and need to replace a section, again you need to start taking floor up. With ceiling mounted panels you get to place them exactly where they are needed. If you want to boost just replace a 600W with an 800W. If you need to replace - just take the faulty unit down, put a new one up. Not that any of my panels have failed since I bought them mind! Finally I guess I just like the concept of heating coming 'down' on me. It just seems so much more natural. It's a corny saying and all the FIR panel makers use it, but they're right - it is just like being outside in the sun, and it's a much nicer feeling than getting your heat sideways or 'upways'!!! Silly I know! Thanks for the post - sorry I can't be of any more help! Jeff
Jeff - 1 September 2017 17:42
Hi Ed. We have a total of 24 FIR panels here with a combined wattage of just under 11KW. However as mentioned above, we split the house into multiple loops of panels, and only one room in the loop can be on at one time. This means that max output is approx 3KW at any time. Sharing electricity bills is a bit tricky, not because it's not huge (which it is!) but because it's huge for other non-FIR reasons. I have a home office aka 'pod' which is on all of the time running servers - this sucks about 800W 24/7 all on it's own. Then we have the annex of the house, heating the rooms in which I have included in the 11KW FIR figure - however being an annex, this has a higher power consumption than if it were typical rooms in a non annex. So washing machines, kettles, ovens etc - they are all on in the Annex. So really our electricity bill is sort of for two houses not one. We get some back from the solar roof (on average about £200 a quarter). Plus we have no maintenance needed on the FIR system, no gas checkups, no leaks etc - so there is an additional 'invisible saving' made there. But not so much that it makes FIR cheaper I'm afraid. I honestly don't think FIR is a great 'money saving idea' for a large house - it's more about quality and reliability and to feel a little good about not using a fossil fuel to heat your home. But really, mainly it's because it's a nice heat and some times nice things do cost more. For a modern, well insulated small flat with a bedroom, WC, hall, and kitchen /diner - you could probably get away with heating it all with just 2KW of panels - and compared to a gas system - for this type of property, for maintenance, safety and comfort, yes then it's a good idea for the heart, and the head! Jeff
Ed - 1 September 2017 19:21
Hi Jeff, Thank you for your reply. We have a 3 bedroom semi detached house which is connected to the mains gas but the whole central heating system needs replacing because it's running on a 40 year old back boiler behind the fireplace in the living room and it's about to die. If I put in a condensing boiler then most of the pipework and radiators need replacing (at least I was told this by 5 different plumbers who came around to quote) so we are looking at alternatives. I was looking at this http://infraredtechnologies.co.uk/underfloor-heating/infrared-film/ecofilm-pro-professional-underfloor-heating-kit.html I found a lot of people have installed these in Europe and Asia and seen the benefits of it but I want to do my own research before I commit. Effectively I could cover the whole house floor area with 3.5-4 kW system. Would you mind having a look at the link and sharing your thoughts please? Thanks in advance. Ed
Jeff - 5 September 2017 18:28
Hi Ed. I was interested in this underfloor system so I gave them a call today. Basically, I was interested, knowing that my own panels need to get up to around 100c to generate FIR - how this was technically possible using an underfloor film which would not be able to operate any anywhere near this temp. I did ask what temp the film operates at, and was told around 30c. I asked them to send me some technical specs - but all of the docs they sent over talk of the solution as emitting 'radiant' head rather than convection heat. As far as I can see I can't see any mention of Far Infra Red on the product literature they sent me either. The website talks about 'infrared underfloor heating' rather than far infrared. UFH is not for me - I don't like the idea of having warm / hot feet, in my experience rooms with UFH are either roasting / stuffy or freezing cold. They take a while to get up to temp, and are not as responsive as panels. If there is a problem you need to take up the floor. It's unlikely you can perform zoning within a room (with FIR ceiling panels, every panel can be it's own zone). Finally at 100W/square meter - our 200/meter house would require 20KW to heat. That said, if you are a fan of UFH - don't let the ambiguity around whether it's FIR or not put you off. It's a heating system! If you go for it, it will no doubt heat your home and I'm sure they will do a competent job of spec'ing it up and working out how much matting you need for the job, and also calculate your heating costs (taking other factors such as building specific factors such as insulation, double glazing etc. So I would still ask them to work all of this out as long as it's a free quote. Then I would also send the same plans to Multi Heat or Herschel IR and ask them to do the same. Then you will have costs for both systems - you can then make a properly informed decision!!!!
Damian - 8 November 2017 12:06
Hi Jeff, is there any product I could line the walls/floor with that would help reflect the Infrared Rays thus reducing Heat through the External Walls and Concrete Floor (that I have) or is 'normal' insulation sufficient? I have also seen Infrared Water Boilers. I like those for the fact that something like a Gas Pilot Light is on 24x7 just in case someone/something requires Hot Water whereas an Infrared Water Boiler only uses electricity for the time required. Do you have any thoughts on infrared Boilers?